- EO Charging offers a turnkey service for automobile fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair components of the electrification stack. President and Chief Business Officer John Walsh informed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets typically overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must hold their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early phases of a undertaking, together with good vitality administration, might help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Completely different fleets have totally different infrastructure wants. EO charging provides month-to-month fee plans based mostly on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, to be able to handle totally different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like working a web page or a cellphone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely upon a stack, which is a hip approach of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that perform collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be advanced. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others might rely upon extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it methods which can be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising subject reminiscent of EV charging infrastructure, it might be arduous for potential clients to determine how the totally different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the solid of characters is giant, and the relationships amongst them might be advanced—just like the checklist of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some corporations specialise in one layer of the stack, and others provide a turnkey package deal, offering all of the services themselves and/or subcontracting with different companies.
What’s the most effective course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match totally different corporations for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a hard and fast month-to-month worth? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Business Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and supplied some suggestions for patrons.
Charged: What sort of clients does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal clients are transit authorities, faculty districts and fleets, reminiscent of Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which can be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re focusing on these as nicely.
The issue on this trade is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the most important problem with charging right now—everybody thinks, “Man, if I may simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve bought what I would like.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You had been previously Chief Business Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about rather a lot. I for one thought it was an ideal firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by means of the lens of John Walsh may be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a 12 months in the past, just a little bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had lots of capital that bought burned by means of very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I’d say, greater than something.
However don’t quit on Proterra. The corporate was offered in three items—battery methods, chargers and buses—and there are three totally different house owners now. Proterra had the most effective battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the most effective battery know-how. There are lots of corporations that may use their battery methods and have lots of success. I believe the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by means of the know-how that was given start by Proterra.
Sorting by means of the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are lots of items to the charging puzzle. You have got your individual proprietary software program, and also you provide a full turnkey package deal for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s referred to as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you set the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} corporations. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options based mostly on the ability ranges that they want. If you speak to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually necessary that individuals overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply you must preserve the chargers?” Effectively, you could preserve your automobile, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly an important piece now we have, is a technical operations middle [TOC]. You probably have a cellphone, there’s a technical operations middle that’s resetting your cellphone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even comprehend it. That’s what we’re in a position to do—we will see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep. Should you decide a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two totally different cellphone calls. That’s what clients are annoyed with. One cellphone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re on the lookout for, and that’s what we do.
One in all our authentic buyers was an organization referred to as Amazon, they usually demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide clients. You would ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” they usually’d say it’s 99.7. They are going to inform you that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that lots of the issues are as a result of there is perhaps half a dozen corporations and organizations concerned with a undertaking.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do associate with sure clients or sure corporations. For engineering, we would associate with somebody. I’ll associate on the high of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit businesses—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I bought to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their palms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer they usually say, “We’ve bought three totally different manufacturers of chargers on this huge depot as a result of we purchased them at totally different occasions, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to have a look at three screens. They’ve three totally different software program packages and three totally different upkeep methods. With us, it’s all on one display. I believe that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the most important promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re in a position to see every thing in a single spot from an operations middle.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit businesses about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I bought to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their palms.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy suggestions for fleet operators? What are a few of the issues that may go mistaken, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear probably the most is “You want to pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? After I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, huge, huge corporations, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re in all probability 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, in order that they have buildings that they by no means thought they might electrify. Then you could have Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re getting ready for electrification. So, the error I believe will get made is, if you happen to take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We bought 100 vans. We’ve got to cost all of them. We’ve bought one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We want 5.” And they’ll instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I would like 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s whenever you hear everyone busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Effectively, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. We do lots of modeling for patrons. “That is what number of automobiles now we have. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy now we have on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two totally different instructions. I ship it to the power conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular occasions of night time at a sure energy stage.
Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You’ll be able to work with the utility on that, but in addition work with corporations like EO that will help you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking thousands and thousands of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of. That’s in all probability the most important mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot facet.
If we hear a buyer say, “Effectively, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing lots of proper now with clients that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping every thing out—rip and change. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll provide you with that. However on the similar time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses underneath one roof. They knew from the start they had been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes had been arrange so they might simply add the chargers as they went alongside. Every little thing within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous necessary.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Work with corporations like EO that will help you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I think (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about these items) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We bought a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as traditional.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I believe that’s precisely what they had been pondering. Is it political? It may be in some instances the place now we have to take care of a authorities mandate. What I really like about Florida, there’s so many shoppers which can be going electrical that don’t need to. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Effectively, right now, on an electrical bus, you’ll be able to go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like a daily fueling station. They refill at night time, they usually run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month charge
Charged: You provide a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll package deal our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations middle, and cost one month-to-month charge—it’s $59. That bundle is absolutely engaging to lots of fleet clients.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants fluctuate. Some clients have lots of idle time. Some clients are placing lots of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as nicely. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, they usually say, “We don’t want lots of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in your entire day, we would go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in site visitors in Manhattan. That’s totally different from anyone in Kansas that is perhaps working a great distance. So, we need to give these choices to clients and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to want DC quick chargers, however they are able to get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from a few of the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We’ve got our personal charger referred to as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it matches with lots of fleet clients as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The dimensions of the charger is absolutely engaging—you don’t need to get right into a Stage 3, which might be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is now we have them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I would like 10 chargers,” we will ship them inside 24 hours. We’ve got them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one now we have right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger facet, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, whenever you see our label on it, you must stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s anyone else’s. We do this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re pleased.
The same old questions on tendencies
Charged: Individuals are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s lots of corporations, and a few them lately went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I believe it’s a pattern. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, faculty bus and transit, that {hardware} has to satisfy Purchase America requirements. That signifies that that charger must be in-built america, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of corporations. Just lately, you in all probability noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We predict that’s a great factor as a result of we expect Heliox has a very good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger corporations? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I’d say we’d like the fitting variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and might service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep facet. However I believe consolidation is totally going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We’ve got a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I find it irresistible as a result of it’s possibly half the scale of a van, and it matches within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to actually scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they will add one other one and one other one, they usually can actually get their entire fleet electrified with out chargers taking over house.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one automobile at a super-high fee, but it surely permits you to break up that up. Is that one thing you’ll be able to’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You’ll be able to, however you’re restricted—let’s say you’re taking a 150 kW charger, you’ll be able to put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or are you aware of some industrial purposes?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them rather well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was one in every of our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, but it surely’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The college bus market actually needs it, they usually need it at scale. I believe V2G will get pushed by the client. Residing right here in Florida, if now we have a storm and the electrical energy goes down, nicely, I’ve bought an influence station proper right here—we’ve bought 1,000 faculty buses sitting there stuffed with vitality. I simply need to have the potential to tug it off that bus and into one other automobile or a facility. However I nonetheless suppose it’s in pilot—I can’t provide you with an instance of a industrial utility the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
